Wednesday, November 03, 2004
BIZARRO WORLD CHRISTIANITY
Exit poling last night indicated that the single most important issue to voters was moral values. Those voters who indicated this was there most important issue voted 85% for George Bush. Not surprisingly, most of these people identified themselves as Evangelical Christians.
I am constantly amazed at what passes for morality among the new Christian right. They believe life is so sacred, we must protect even potential human lives, but but have no problem with 100,000 civilians killed in an unnecessary, not to mention immoral war. It doesn't concern them that 18,000 people a year die due to lack of health insurance. They believe in family values, but it doesn't bother them that their children are being slowly poisoned by air and water pollution. Even the fish sticks their kids eat are a potential hazard. But no matter, as long as the queers can't marry, things are good. Their parents can't afford the medications they need, one out of five kids live in poverty, but these aren't the family values that matter, apparently.
I grew up in an Evangelical home, and as I recall corruption and cronyism were not considered good moral values. Back then corruption was bad. Guess things have changed at church.
The truth is, the christian right has become a danger to democracy. Their agenda is simple. Blur the constitutional line between church and state, and force their "values" (and I use that term loosely) on the rest of us.
I'll have a lot more to say about this in the coming days. Stay tuned.
I am constantly amazed at what passes for morality among the new Christian right. They believe life is so sacred, we must protect even potential human lives, but but have no problem with 100,000 civilians killed in an unnecessary, not to mention immoral war. It doesn't concern them that 18,000 people a year die due to lack of health insurance. They believe in family values, but it doesn't bother them that their children are being slowly poisoned by air and water pollution. Even the fish sticks their kids eat are a potential hazard. But no matter, as long as the queers can't marry, things are good. Their parents can't afford the medications they need, one out of five kids live in poverty, but these aren't the family values that matter, apparently.
I grew up in an Evangelical home, and as I recall corruption and cronyism were not considered good moral values. Back then corruption was bad. Guess things have changed at church.
The truth is, the christian right has become a danger to democracy. Their agenda is simple. Blur the constitutional line between church and state, and force their "values" (and I use that term loosely) on the rest of us.
I'll have a lot more to say about this in the coming days. Stay tuned.
Comments:
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I clicked on your homepage off of iddybud's site. After reading your post here, I couldn't agree with you more on this topic. It is important to me that some day prejudice and segregation will be replaced by love and understanding. Keep up your good work!
Dear Cara, this post was not meant to criticize you personally. nor my brother-in-law (the minister) or any other individual. However, as a social movement, the Christian right has been increasingly bold the last 20 years, and they have had a very simple agenda. Which is, to push a "Christian" agenda on the entire country. It is an agenda based on a false premise, that America was formed as a Christian country. It wasn't. The Founding Fathers deliberately, expressly insisted that the US have a secular government. Most Americans at the time were descendants of people who migrated here to flee religious persecution. Persecution perpetrated by state sponsored churches. They were determined that there would be no appearance of an endorsement of religion. The reason the word God doesn't appear in the Constitution is that the two men with enough political clout to scuttle the whole deal, Washington and Franklin, refused to sign it if any references to Gpd were included. They felt that strongly about it.
America should be a place where all it's citizens enjoy the benefits of that citizenship. It cannot be allowed to become a place where the majority tyranizes the minority. That is why we have a bill of rights. It should not be a nation of a few haves and a whole bunch of have nots. It should be a place where everyone is free to live according to the tenets of their beliefs. It should also be a place where compassion for people like your parents is more important then drug company profits.
I am proud that you had well thought out reasons for your vote. Unfortunately, that was not the case for the vast majority of Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians. Of the people who identified themselves as members of this group, almost 90% voted for Bush. Of these 85% said that "moral values" i.e abortion, gay marriage, were the reason for their vote.
This post was not a shot at Christians. There are plenty of Christians of countless denominations who understand the duties of citizenship in a democracy, who are truly compassionate, and vote for rational reasons. There are others whose agenda is to force their view of God on the rest of us. I love the former, I'll fight the others with very ounce of my being.....love, Mark
America should be a place where all it's citizens enjoy the benefits of that citizenship. It cannot be allowed to become a place where the majority tyranizes the minority. That is why we have a bill of rights. It should not be a nation of a few haves and a whole bunch of have nots. It should be a place where everyone is free to live according to the tenets of their beliefs. It should also be a place where compassion for people like your parents is more important then drug company profits.
I am proud that you had well thought out reasons for your vote. Unfortunately, that was not the case for the vast majority of Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians. Of the people who identified themselves as members of this group, almost 90% voted for Bush. Of these 85% said that "moral values" i.e abortion, gay marriage, were the reason for their vote.
This post was not a shot at Christians. There are plenty of Christians of countless denominations who understand the duties of citizenship in a democracy, who are truly compassionate, and vote for rational reasons. There are others whose agenda is to force their view of God on the rest of us. I love the former, I'll fight the others with very ounce of my being.....love, Mark
I've known you for a long, long time -since I was 8 years old and you were about 12. And I love you dearly -always have, and always will. But please don't do the self-righteous liberal crap about Christians. The idea of separation of church and state originated with Roger Williams, a minister, the concept was helped along by the our founding fathers because none of them wanted to see the government interfering with our right to worship God (as happened all over Europe). It was all about protecting the church from an oppresive government and was supposed to ensure our right to worship God publicly.
Now we are at point in our culture where many people absolutely hate God -and so they want to twist the constituion to fit their personal agendas, and all the while complain bitterly that our system allows Christians the right to vote -as if the founding fathers had in mind only for pagans, athiests, and amoral people to vote.
You know me -I am not a war monger, hate monger, or any other hateful, mean-spirited cliche people use to describe Christians -but I do love Jesus -and I did vote. Sorry if that disturbed a few (as it turned out, a minority) people.
Go ahead and rail all you want to about politics, and the President, and whatever else irks you -and even believe Michael Moore is telling the truth about everything if you must and are able to keep from laughing -but in your heart of hearts, you know that I'm not the problem with America.
Your Long Time Friend and Brother,
Steve Pennell
Now we are at point in our culture where many people absolutely hate God -and so they want to twist the constituion to fit their personal agendas, and all the while complain bitterly that our system allows Christians the right to vote -as if the founding fathers had in mind only for pagans, athiests, and amoral people to vote.
You know me -I am not a war monger, hate monger, or any other hateful, mean-spirited cliche people use to describe Christians -but I do love Jesus -and I did vote. Sorry if that disturbed a few (as it turned out, a minority) people.
Go ahead and rail all you want to about politics, and the President, and whatever else irks you -and even believe Michael Moore is telling the truth about everything if you must and are able to keep from laughing -but in your heart of hearts, you know that I'm not the problem with America.
Your Long Time Friend and Brother,
Steve Pennell
# posted by 
: 12:32 PM
: 12:32 PM
Steve
You and I have been friends almost as long as I can remember. As far as I am concerned that will never change. However, your post is factually incorrect in so many places it is hard to know where to begin. So I guess I will begin with the founding fathers and the constitution.
While the idea of separation of church and state started with Roger Williams, it was not protecting the churches the founding fathers had in mind. The vast majority of the men who signed the constitution were at best nominally religious. Virtually none of them believed in the deity of Christ. And they believed in the separation of church and state because they knew the mayhem and havoc state sponsored churches had caused in Europe, especially Great Britain. Virtually 600 years of constant civil war or repression that would make Stalinist Russia blush. catholic Mary vs anglican Elizabeth. King Charles and the Cavaliers vs oliver Cromwell and his roundheads. etc. etc. The founding fathers, especially Washington and Franklin, were determined that there would be even no appearance of state support of religion. That is why the word God appears nowhere in the Constitution. The two men with enough political power to scuttle the whole deal, Washington and Franklin, refused to sign it if it did. Washington, incidentally, despised clergymen, which is why none were present at is death bed. One of the most famous moments of his first term as president was when he had 5 of the most prominent clergymen of his day physically removed from his office. Their crime..demanding to be consulted on legislation. As they were escorted out of his office he bellowed behind them "this is rule by law, not theocracy".
Second, I did not refer Christians as dangerous. I referred to a specific brand of Christian as dangerous. That brand who believes they have a divine right to foist their beliefs off on everyone else, who have no respect for the separation of church and state, or the right of others to believe differently. Those who do not understand that the reason we have a bill of rights is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
The evangelical church has changed mightily in the past thirty years, and quite frankly, not for the better. When we were kids, mixing the pastorate and politics were absolutely taboo. That is because the WWII generation believed VERY STRONGLY in the constitution and separation of church and state. Men like my dad (whose battalion spearheaded the counter attack at the battle of the bulge and took 80% casualties), my uncle, the English bros., Dave Wells, Wes Wood etc., sacrificed mightily to defend that constitution. In fact, the most successful pastor in the history of the Pontiac church (your fathers predecessor, Bill Burgess) lost his job in large part because he made his politics too well known.
And as for your jab about my being a follower of Michael Moore. I do not believe the things I do about Bush because of Michael Moore. I am greatly influenced by the number of well respected historians, journalists and commentators who have said the same things (and in fact inspired Michael Moore). Men Kevin Phillips, historian, political advisor to Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Bush senior. The 6 former chairs of the joint chiefs who actively campaigned against Bush (3 of whom were Republican appointees). And on and on.
Finally, I have no problem with christians, jews, buddhists, mormons, islamists, ba'hais, or any other religion voting. I do however, reserve the right to comment on blatant hypocrisy when I see it.
When you look at the issues, from health care, to torture, to corruption (remember Jesus and the money changers), to unjust war, to the environment, and conclude that what Jesus would do would be vote for Bush, then you can understand why I am no longer a christian.
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You and I have been friends almost as long as I can remember. As far as I am concerned that will never change. However, your post is factually incorrect in so many places it is hard to know where to begin. So I guess I will begin with the founding fathers and the constitution.
While the idea of separation of church and state started with Roger Williams, it was not protecting the churches the founding fathers had in mind. The vast majority of the men who signed the constitution were at best nominally religious. Virtually none of them believed in the deity of Christ. And they believed in the separation of church and state because they knew the mayhem and havoc state sponsored churches had caused in Europe, especially Great Britain. Virtually 600 years of constant civil war or repression that would make Stalinist Russia blush. catholic Mary vs anglican Elizabeth. King Charles and the Cavaliers vs oliver Cromwell and his roundheads. etc. etc. The founding fathers, especially Washington and Franklin, were determined that there would be even no appearance of state support of religion. That is why the word God appears nowhere in the Constitution. The two men with enough political power to scuttle the whole deal, Washington and Franklin, refused to sign it if it did. Washington, incidentally, despised clergymen, which is why none were present at is death bed. One of the most famous moments of his first term as president was when he had 5 of the most prominent clergymen of his day physically removed from his office. Their crime..demanding to be consulted on legislation. As they were escorted out of his office he bellowed behind them "this is rule by law, not theocracy".
Second, I did not refer Christians as dangerous. I referred to a specific brand of Christian as dangerous. That brand who believes they have a divine right to foist their beliefs off on everyone else, who have no respect for the separation of church and state, or the right of others to believe differently. Those who do not understand that the reason we have a bill of rights is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
The evangelical church has changed mightily in the past thirty years, and quite frankly, not for the better. When we were kids, mixing the pastorate and politics were absolutely taboo. That is because the WWII generation believed VERY STRONGLY in the constitution and separation of church and state. Men like my dad (whose battalion spearheaded the counter attack at the battle of the bulge and took 80% casualties), my uncle, the English bros., Dave Wells, Wes Wood etc., sacrificed mightily to defend that constitution. In fact, the most successful pastor in the history of the Pontiac church (your fathers predecessor, Bill Burgess) lost his job in large part because he made his politics too well known.
And as for your jab about my being a follower of Michael Moore. I do not believe the things I do about Bush because of Michael Moore. I am greatly influenced by the number of well respected historians, journalists and commentators who have said the same things (and in fact inspired Michael Moore). Men Kevin Phillips, historian, political advisor to Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Bush senior. The 6 former chairs of the joint chiefs who actively campaigned against Bush (3 of whom were Republican appointees). And on and on.
Finally, I have no problem with christians, jews, buddhists, mormons, islamists, ba'hais, or any other religion voting. I do however, reserve the right to comment on blatant hypocrisy when I see it.
When you look at the issues, from health care, to torture, to corruption (remember Jesus and the money changers), to unjust war, to the environment, and conclude that what Jesus would do would be vote for Bush, then you can understand why I am no longer a christian.
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